Audit & finance committee debates its own membership

The membership of the town’s audit and finance committee had considerable debate over its makeup and whether the two members of council that are on it should be there.

A motion to replace Deputy Mayor Chris Gibb and Councillor Linden Crain, the latter being the committee chair, didn’t go anywhere as it was found to be outside the scope of the committee. The two council members were accused of not bringing the committee’s voice to council, but Crain and Gibb countered the motion that had been put forth was purely political.

Committee member Gordon Moore asked if motions and recommendations went to council, citing a motion regarding quarterly variance reports come back to council with revenues and expenses. He also asked about a motion regarding the budget and how it compares to other municipalities. Clerk Kevin Fox told the committee he would review the record on whether the motions were dealt with and get back to them, noting some recommendations were made last December.

Fox said the recommendation would have come up at budget deliberations, with Moore adding there were non-budget motions that came up as well. He questioned how minutes are distributed to the committee and how they are advised, with Fox stating minutes and the motions therein are considered at the next meeting, as directed by council.

Deputy CAO Melissa Osborne said during the Dec. 1 audit and finance committee meeting, motions that were made by the committee would be summarized by the clerk so they would be presented to town council at a Dec. 8 budget meeting.

“They reviewed them, they were aware of them, this committee was made aware this was happening and what decisions council made that evening, as our clerk has indicated, he can provide the minutes to this committee if they so choose. They are also online,” said Osborne.

Crain said council is provided with minutes and any member of council could bring an item forward.

“I don’t think it’s necessarily my responsibility, or Deputy Mayor Chris Gibb who is also on the committee, to say to council ‘hey, make sure you read through the committee meeting minutes’,” said Crain, who attended the meeting via Zoom. “That is the responsibility of every member of council to make sure they are reading the agenda in full. If they don’t, that’s on them. I can’t recall what happened six months ago. I also can’t recall what I ate for dinner last night. I have to trust what the clerk is mentioning, that he’s going to provide this information to the committee based on discussions that would have taken place earlier this year.”

Committee member John Purdie made a motion that town council appoint two alternate members of council to sit on the committee for the balance of the term.

Purdie said he has had concerns “we’ve had no voice at council” and questioned whether issues brought up by the committee were being brought to council.

“I think that is the expectation of the councillors to advocate for the committee they’re sitting on and bring that voice to council,” said Purdie. “It is apparent to me that isn’t happening at council and we’re not getting the representation we want. I have some concerns with recent happenings that we could be better represented by councillors who are advocating and supporting the rest of council instead of bringing the town into turmoil by working against them.”

Purdie objected to Crain’s comments about remembering what motions were made and what he ate for dinner “but apparently there seems to be a great memory about conversations with Mr. (Premier Doug) Ford and Mr. (Windsor Mayor Drew) Dilkens.”

Purdie claimed the committee “has faced roadblocks” due to the council members on the committee and asked for them to be replaced.

“I’ve lost confidence in this committee. I don’t feel my voice is being heard as a professional. I feel my participation in this committee in support of this town and this council is being undermined,” he stated.

Fox said “attacking the credibility of a member would not qualify as a point of privilege,” and that the proper use of a point of privilege is more to do with the ability to hear a member or not being comfortable in the room.

Policy and committee co-ordinator Selena Scebba pointed out the July 22 audit and finance committee meeting that it was the last one of the term for the committee. Fox added the committee has no mandate to provide such a recommendation to council and it shouldn’t be something the committee considers.

Purdie accused Gibb and Crain of having a conflict of interest and they should not be able to debate whether they sit on the committee. Fox replied that the Municipal Conflict of Interest Act says it is the responsibility of each member to declare whether they have a conflict and other members and other members can’t say whether others have a conflict.

“That is not within the bounds of the Act,” said Fox.

Gibb said he could see where members get the sense that council doesn’t value the information.

“It’s generally not brought up,” said Gibb. “This is just my opinion but there’s members of this committee who can’t stay on task, they can’t speak to what is in front of the committee. It’s obvious this is kind of a silly, political move when the member mentions Doug Ford or mentions Mayor Dilkens. I think the behaviour of the committee is what causes council not to take it seriously. That’s my sense of it.”

The deputy mayor believed bringing this issue up at the last committee meeting was “distasteful at best” and said he wouldn’t support it at the last meeting.

“Maybe if this was the sense in the first year, it would have been taken seriously. It is what it is,” said Gibb. “I guess we’re at the end and everyone wants to get their political shots in.”

Vice chair Joey Corio, who led the meeting with Crain on Zoom, called for respectful conduct from everyone and wanted “to bring down the temperature” on the matter. Corio added the scope of the committee could get looked at during the next term of council and wondered what the benefit of the motion is other than having discussions.

“If I’m wrong on that, please tell me,” he said.

Fox reiterated the discussion is outside the mandate of the committee and it is up to the chair to determine if the motion is out of order. Corio believed the motion was outside the committee’s scope, with Purdie respecting that decision.

Crain was given a chance to respond to earlier comments, stating he could make “general comments” under the new business portion of the agenda.

“With respect to the deputy mayor and myself, bringing up the committee’s concerns are done through the way of minutes. There is no proof comments were not made to council. The clerk did mention that he is going to be reviewing the meeting footage.”

Crain added any member of the committee could register as a delegate to town council to voice their concerns.

“I take great offense the deputy mayor and myself are not following the advice of accountants,” Crain continued. “I understand there are accountants on this committee but you do not need to be an accountant to be an effective member of this committee. Having diverse backgrounds in the financial sector is a benefit to this committee regardless of having a CPA or letters next to your name.”

Crain stated he didn’t support what was brought up and it was made for “political points.”

Moore asked if there would be a new committee in the new term, with Fox stating the makeup of the committee would be up to the new council. Moore wanted to know if qualification criteria apply to council members as well. The clerk indicated there is a varied approach to putting people on committees to have different viewpoints and experiences.

Purdie said “I have the greatest respect for the councillors” and that he doesn’t hold people accountable for things they don’t know. Municipalities have audit and finance committees because they recognize the value to residents by having professional members in certain areas to make council members aware of questions that should be asked.

There have been a lot of members of the town who have volunteered their time, Purdie added, but believed it is a disservice to council if the committee is unable to put forth recommended questions that should be asked.

Audit & finance committee debates its own membership

By Ron Giofu